6l80 vs 10l80 transmission 6l80 vs 10l80 transmission

Automatic Options - 4L60 and 4L60E. But before you have a brand induced meltdown, lets look at all the things that make the 10L80 transmission so unique. We pride ourselves in staying at the forefront of our industry, technology, research & development and our commitment to you, our customer. * EXCELLENT FOR VEHICLES THAT ARE EQUIPPED WITH ENGINES PRODUCING UP TO 650 FT LBS OF TORQUE. Ford considers this to be a normal condition! Respectfully, Len Gilbert Kitchener ON Canada. This platform did not get Gen 4 (58x CKP) engines until 2008. Will this hurt the trani? In 2018 and later models with the transmission warmer mounted to the transmission, there can be a concern with coolant leaking under the vehicle. This drives up the price of the rebuilt converter, but ensures that this kind of failure wont happen again. Once there is any metal-to-metal on the TCC surface at all, its usually a short time before debris wipes out the clutch completely. only) '72-'79, Small Block V8, Gen. The TCM-2650 is compatible with the GM 6L45/50, 6L80/90 . The new 2019 Camaro gets the a10 but, Its not the a10 (10L90) from the ZL1. But look at the clutch pistons and spring dampers they are markedly different. Sixth 1.28 The 6l80E transmission are the same through the entire line with changes made thru production in electronics. Weight 230+ lbs (weight varies depending on application) Fluid Type Mercon ULV ATF Internally they are very different but at least with the 8l90 you do not need to completely disassemble the transmission to convert to 4wd from 2wd. Autostart / Autostop function disabled (if equipped), Transmission Adaptive Pressure Control and adaptive shift values Frozen, High line pressure (harsh shifts and engagements). this means that dimension "C" is usually longer than dimension "B". Then to create a new Second gear, the overdrive is engaged 2.97 x 0.75 = 2.23:1. The 4L80E is a very large, heavy transmission but, like its original TH-400 cousin, it can absorb and transmit an enormous amount of engine torque. Tested: 2023 BMW M4 CSL Is a Track Monster. The 6L80 in its transaxle version for the Corvette. Upon a test drive and a scan, code P0741 is noted and the percentage of TCC slip shows to be way out of range. A 2005 Ford F350 with the 6.0 liter diesel engine and 5R110W transmission has set a P0753 Pressure Control Solenoid A - Electrical Fault code and a P2700 Transmission Friction Element A - Apply Time Out Of Range code. and GCVW of 21,000 lbs. The 6L80E uses four under drive gears and two overdrive gears. How is this different from the GM 6L80E transmission that is used in the Corvette or in the newer GM trucks? Brake very gently to a complete stop and hold the foot brake for five (5) seconds. Since 2003, Jeff has held various positions at Car Craft (including editor), has written books on small block Chevy performance, and even cultivated an impressive collection of 1965 and 1966 Chevelles. You also asked about GMs new 6L80E. Like earlier automatics, the 6L80 features one line pressure tap available for testing and diagnostic purposes. 6L80E Specs The 6L80 is a robust transmission and can handle a ton of power. TSB 18-NA-026 Transmission fluid leak Its the a10 (10L80) from the Silverado. Thought's? This version is 1-3/8" longer and about 25% of its internal parts differ. This is the abridged version of my problem. Do you know does the aftermarket have a fix? The case is a cast aluminum alloy. Spin losses (i.e. The idler gear itself has two threaded holes opposite each other for the use of a puller (see figure 1, above). This idler gear and ball bearing assembly is mounted to the stator shaft support housing. Cadillac CT5 2021 MHS Automatic 10L80 Transmission 10-Speed 24294949 AWD 2427812. If there are worn valves or faulty inputs or controls, its easy to see how the clutch could start to shudder and quickly fail. By Wayne Colonna. We all know that automatic transmission failures can have many root causes. It is an incredibly advanced transmission and has the technology to . I have a 2wd 2000 regular cab stepside bed Silverado that used to make closer to 600-650 wheel horsepower with the D1-SC Procharger and 4L80E. Thx This means that its designed for rear wheel drive vehicles only. The 6L80 denotes that the transmission is a 6-Speed, Longitudinally mounted, and for 8000 lbs. One common 6l80 issue due to design flaws include premature clutch failure. To achieve this flip-flopped damper orientation in the JMBX, the profile and shape of the piston is radically different from the TMBX. LS 3 has a Big Turbo on it, I am only worried about rear gear, rest I have help with, Car never went over 130 or it red lined with Big Block, Never was a highway car, It has a 373 or a 323 in it, Not a 411 I know that much, Thats all, Im building a gen one Camaro and Ive purchased lt4 supercharged motor for it I was wanting to know if you know the difference in size for 10 speed transmission to a turbo 400 I need to know how much to raise my floor pan at tunnel and about how much fire wall to cut out. Production Began 2017 $3,245*. Upon full inspection, the unit is loaded with metal, and the pump (bell housing) is worn to the point of needing remachining or replacement. Special tools are often needed when diagnosing transmission problems and overhauling units. The 6L80 features a generously deep first gear for an automatic, making for favorably powerful starts from a standing stop. For a type B code, the fault must be present after two consecutive ignition cycles, otherwise, the MIL will not illuminate (however, a pending code will store). The question is will the 10L80 be as strong as the 10L90? Bolt and gasket inlcuded. Will it be like the 5th gen's where the ss got the 6L80 and the more powerful ZL1 got the 6L90? Then, because the six-speed is splitting ratios, the rpm drop between gears is less because TCI has turned this into a five-speed automatic with an overdrive. GM states, ". The CIDAS (Casting Integrated Direct Acting Solenoid) are all normally low solenoids. This allows him to see what kinds of issues some of these transmissions come back to the dealer with while under warranty. A JMBX torque converter rebuilt with a Sonnax forged cover and piston has proven to be a successful recipe for a long-lasting unit, preventing this typical pattern failure. Thats pretty much all thats to it. Also fits '05-'06 Pontiac GTO (differential side). Is the out put shaft and splines on a 4L80E the same as a turbo 400? Now it has RPM Level 6 but if a 6L80E or 6L90E swap was introduced or even the 8 and 10 transmissions it would be a game changer. After a prolonged drive time, DTC P0752 Pressure Control Solenoid A - Stuck On and P0973 Pressure Control Solenoid A - Circuit Low also set. A typical scene thats now playing out in transmission shops across the country goes something like this: A late-model, full-size truck or SUV is dropped off to get the transmission checked out. I & II The original first three gear ratios are in fact still the same as the TH-400. This creates the situation where the engine drops less rpm from First to Second gear. Im with you on AFM is crap. Team ATF builder Super Dave doing his magic on assembling the First 10L80 transmission ATFSpeed has had come thru the shop. Seventh 1.00 Fluid pressure is maintained by an off-axis main pump that can vary the displacement depending on the load. : 18-NA-355 Special Tools DT-52263 Transmission Fluid Exchange Kit: DT-52263-1 Block Assembly (includes fluid drain To view our 2020 replacement transmission pricing guide, click here. Accelerator pedal position: Directly affects shift scheduling, TCC scheduling, and transmission diagnostics. However, at light pedal or road load, single-step upshifts will occur. And with four gearsets and six clutches (2 brake, 4 rotating), the 10L80 10-speed has just one more clutch than the 8L90 8-speed transmission (this is partly because of a unique triple-clutch assembly mounted near the middle of the case). Did they release much info about it on the trucks? $ 439.00 Select options. Pre-Owned. Codes P0741 or P1744 may or may not set in the PCM or TCM (depending on application). January 2022 Jason, MAZDA6 shuts down while driving fuel pump not monitored, may be no engine light etc. Related Articles Dana offers Spicer end yokes for Allison Transmissions ATI introduces six-speed Chevy transmission performance package Georend Transmission adds Ford 6R140 transmission pan kit. Why the thin woven carbon clutch doesnt typically fail in the 4L60-E TMBX. Renew Subscription It's RPO code is "MYC" and it is domestically manufactured in GM's Ypsilanti, Michigan plant. It can also be controlled under DSC, or Driver Shift Control, e.g., "tap shifting". Thanks for the question! if (yr!=2012) The 6L80 was, from the ground up, developed as an electric over hydraulic transmission with microprocessor control. R.F. Or did the OE stamped steel cover and piston flex and twist to the point that the clutch surface was not flat, causing a premature friction failure? If the power circuit to the transmission solenoids fails open, then all solenoids are failed electrically off. In addition to developing innovative, quality repairs for transmissions, Sonnax is also the premier, full-line supplier of components to the torque converter remanufacturing industry. 10R80 transmission swap? I didnt realize that it came equiped with such a lame gear ration 3.08. See the pictures below to help you tell if you have the right transmission. Why is that? * An extension housing p/n 8673406 (old p/n 24214689) is available for the TH700R4/4L60 transmission that moves the rear transmission mount to the same position as a TH400 (short-style 4" tail) or TH200-4R transmission. The 6l80 was designed to handle the torque output of some of GM's biggest late-model LS (gen 4) and LT (gen 5) v8 engines, but a number of design flaws created most of the common 6L80E transmission problems. The GM Hydramatic 6L80 transmission heralds a significant change in the design of automatic transmissions at General Motors. The HydraMatic can be adapted to the popular Jeep transfer cases, including the: Essentially all factory GM 4wd applications available with an OEM configured 6L80 have adapters and transfer cases that are prohibitively long for a Jeep, and transfer cases whose sizes and gearing fall short of desirable for most Jeep applications. We Specialize In: GM LS Conversions Engine & Trans Combo Kits Unique Ready to Run Engines Have a question? In doing this, we evaluated another GM unit the 4L60-E TMBX to see if we could pick up any clues. vehicle weights. Looking at the two different front covers from the OUTSIDE, they are very similar, with just a few minor differences (Figure 2). (incl. OPTION 2- The newer and still somewhat mysterious 6L80e has a very enticing ratio selection (4.02, 2.36, 1.53, 1.15, 0.85, 0.67) that should allow the engine to stay within it's "power band" resulting in more usable power. 8 Options if Your Transmission Has Failed, Transmission Diagnostic Trouble Codes (DTC), Best Remanufactured Transmission Companies, Hybrid Battery Replacement Cost and Prices, 10 Most Common Transmission Problems & How to Fix Them, How to Change Transmission Fluid Step by Step, What is a Transmission Flush? The GM 10L80/90 transmissions began production in 2017, meaning that were closing in on six years of this transmission being on the road. Related Articles ATI introduces new e-clutch hub for ZF8HP51 Sonnax adds new stator support bushing for Ford 6F35 Alto adds to intermediate clutch PowerPack line for GM transmissions According to Sonnax, the heavy OE LFS, GFX announced a new pump component for GM Powerglide models, covering several vintage model years: 1950 through 1973. If thats the case, the valve body will have to be replaced to correct these concerns. and it can handle a total gross vehicle weight of 8,600 lb, which makes it a great transmission for LS swaps with no modification needed whatsoever. Its a single-disc, non-captive clutch unit that is somewhat similar to late 300mm 4L60-E converters. document.write("- "+yr); The drive gear and idler gear with the bearing are not sold separately. But I was su unhappy with it I sold a bunch of parts and began changing the built. As transmission builders know, it can be difficult to determine a root cause when you are looking at a catastrophic failure, with rotating parts crashing into each other. This is a normal and desired behavior. and it can handle a total gross vehicle weight of 8,600 lb, which makes it a great transmission for LS swaps with no modification needed whatsoever. I use this vehicle to tow a 20 ft 10k trailer that I use to carry a 5500lb tractor. It is currently phasing out the 6L80/6L90 transmissions (although it hasn't done its all the way yet. Related Articles Are you ready to rock in 2023? or Best Offer . A P59 PCM controlled both the engine and the transmission. 1) Centerline of engine and transmission are the same on LS block and all trans that mount to it. Nothing but problems with it big clunks, engine revs up before grabbing a gear. Interestingly enough, it was not long after this that Brian received another 10L80 with the same issue to resolve. should check for clearance. If youre having problems with your 10L80 youre going to want the most economical solution. The complaint A Ford vehicle equipped with the FNR5 transmission has a complaint of a severe slipping condition in reverse. Swapping to this transmission is currently difficult from an electronic control standpoint. If concerns are still present, it may be necessary to service or replace the valve body assembly (Figure 6). So my suggestion is to not subject the lockup to that amount of abuse. Just keep scanning it until you find the one you are looking for. While working on a 2017-2018 Ford F150/Raptor, 2018 Expedition, Mustang, and Lincoln Navigator equipped with a 10R80 transmission, you may experience erratic TCC operation, or a TCC shudder concern. This transmission is out of a Tur. Problem Owners may experience an ATF leak coming from under the vehicle. I believe the last digits of the model number are the power rating capabilities of the transmission. Seems like the 6 speed auto would be better for the torque curve. Why the Sonnax forged covers and pistons solve the problem. None of the above categories describe me. But it does take a bit of experience to not damage anything on the valve body or inside the . If you have your heart set on a six-speed automatic to back your LS, consider TCI's 6X transmission. Much akin to the GM 10L80-E & 10L90-E transmissions is the 10R80 transmission's oil pump. Sometimes, finding the cause of a complaint isnt as straightforward as one would expect; sometimes, these causes can be very elusive. All rights reserved. Most of the larger displacement applications will have an auxiliary oil-to-air cooler in the system as well. If the transmission is in the vehicle you can use the RPO tag in the glove compartment. I am interested in enhancing my vehicles performance. To be honest, we arent 100% sure of the real reason for JMBX cover and piston failure, but we do have a theory. Joined Feb 11, 2007 Messages 11 Location . GM has been useless to say the least, and waited me out (now off warranty). The transmission can also signal the engine to drop power during a shift if there's a possibility of clutch damage. This product is NOT intended to be used on factory OE vehicles such as; Cadillac, Corvette, Camaro Brian at Tommy Boys Performance, however, has the opportunity to work with a local dealership assisting them when their workload gets heavy. With 10 forward gears to choose from, the 10L80 transmission is able to reduce the fuel consumption of a high horsepower engine. If the transmission fluid is discolored or has evidence of debris in the fluid, it would be recommended to replace the torque converter and flush the system to complete this repair. Since these are straight cut gears, they will tend to be somewhat noisy. LT). Conceptually, locking the converter should help the mph trap speed by reducing slippage. Ive not done the math on total surface area, but its likely the clutch would not last long engaging 450 hp. The idea behind this conversion offers multiple overlapping advantages. August 8, 2022. At the current time, the only way to use a GM 6 or 8-speed automatic is to tie it in with a GM engine like the LS3 and use the engine controller to work with transmission. The new 10-speed combo is 4.70 x 2.85 = 13.39:1. Inspect the warmer for damage and related lines for leaks (Figure 4). Torque Converter 260 mm with Electronic Controlled Capacity Clutch (10L80 ECCC) TAP-2000 is a floor mounted shifter with Tap up Tap Down for GM 6/8L80/90E transmissions. Convert your american classic car with more modern technology. I see where Summit Racing lists a TCI transmission that was originally a 4L80E but they list it as a six-speed transmission. You will need to ship your transmission to us for the rebuild. About 80% of issues are cured by updating the programming. ASK FOR CHAD - Freight Shipping - 90 Day Warranty. A more recent issue with these units is pump drive gear failure (Figure 7). The 1-piece aluminum case houses a slim 260mm 10L80 torque converter inside the integrated bell housing. And you are correct the converters in these units are experiencing a high percentage of failure and are more problematic than normal. For now, the bulk of reported cases are related to diesel vehicles. In contrast, when the 10-speed transmission is at heavy or max throttle, the small steps keep the engine closer to the horsepower peak for the best performance. Your email address will not be published. Note: The mounting pad is usually a part of the extension housing, but the graphic shows it on the maine case. Transmission Report: 6L80, 6L90 Transmission Tech Advisory: Consider an Updated Converter in Your Next Rebuild. If we change to the latest GM 10-speed automatic it has a 4.70:1 First gear and is factory matched with a 2.85:1 rear gear. Solution This 10L80 transmission problem could be the result of a failed oil cooler line fitting retaining bolt. GM 6L80 and 6L90 units are now starting to reach their prime age in the repair cycle, and techs across the country are starting to see a consistent pattern of transmission failures with full-size 6L80, 6L90 vehicles. Then, of course, Sixth gear is still 0.75:1 overdrive. There are swaps for the 6L80 and 6L90 but they dont support all the Trailblazers. The torque converter is a fluid turbine drive and - like those on its predecessor transmissions, the TH350C, 700R4, 4L60, and 4L80E - features a lock-up pressure plate for direct mechanically coupled driving from the engine crank. Within only a year, GM had introduced an even stronger variant of the 6L80; the 6L90, RPO code MYD. The Nightmare on Oak Street: A hunt for 4L30E electrical problems How. All I can find is that it is sealed from the rear and just needs a new tail housing but some say its got to be completely rebuilt from the inside. Your cooperation with this program is greatly appreciated. This transmission makes an excellent conversion transmission due to its adaptability into most Jeeps longer than CJ5s. Change Your Address, Yes, I would like to receive emails from Gears Magazine. A remanufactured 10L80 on the other hand, is completely remanufactured, and its designed to exceed the manufacturers original specifications. The OE cover and piston are damaged to the point of not being reusable this is where all of the metal you find in the transmission comes from! So, what's the unique problem with the 6L80, 6L90 converter found in full-size vehicles? GM LS1 - 9 and Chrysler/Mopar Gen III & Viper V10, Chevrolet Transmissions with Dimensions and Fluid Capacity, Chrysler Transmissions with Dimensions and Fluid Capacity, Ford Transmissions with Dimensions and Fluid Capacity, Torque Converters with Dimensions and Fluid Capacity, TH700R4 / 4L60E / 4L65E Stage II - Stage V, 6L80E / 6L90E Frn Std till 1000Hp version, 6L80E / 6L90E From Stock to 1000Hp version. Be aware of your output shaft version before proceeding with any adaptation. The ideal upgrade for modified performance vehicles, Sonnax 3-bolt adapter flange yoke kit T35-GMFD-01K makes it easy to convert a two-piece driveline to a one-piece, U-joint-style driveline. Copyright 2023 - Transmission Repair Cost Guide. While the 6L80 is generally mechanically compatible with Chevrolet and GM Gen. III+ engines, due to its advanced control strategy, the 6L80 is functionally compatible only with Generation IV GM engines and their matched Engine Control Modules. Given the complexity of the TCM control strategy, the engineers made every effort to allow for partial operation of the unit under most failure conditions. When diagnosing this unit, it is very important to realize that the failure management programs built into the powertrain system may be a direct reflection of the customers drivability complaint. But the replacement of this assembly requires new bolts. Customers' pictures and movies from drag racing competitions. ** Currently 10L80 units are 2017+ so are dealer-only or salvage yard only. RATIOS 4.70, 2.99, 2.15, 1.80, 1.52, 1.28, 1.00, .85, .69, .64. See how the ratios have swapped places? Finished in a durable and corrosion-resistant clear anodize. Shift the transmission to Neutral. If you know the RPO code for the transmission you are golden. The GM transmission is the 10L80, which is available in several models as well. Brake pedal position: Directly affects shift scheduling and TCC scheduling, Air/fuel management adaptive values reset. Sticking valves and sticking CIDAS solenoids are becoming more common concerns with these units. Hi, im doing a swap from Yukon 2019 to 1987 Regal. The Transmission Control Module (TCM) is an adaptive learning, 32-bit computer integrated into the valve body of the 6L80 / 6L90 and communicates with the Engine Control Module via the onboard vehicle CAN bus network. The Ford 10R80 has a fill plug and dipstick on the passenger side of the case like the 6R80 transmission. By the time a converter rebuilder opens up a JMBX, the damage is done, and it can be hard to see what happened first. Check out delicious pictures and movies from Peter Mrup, Dennis Andersson and Svein Pedersen. Thought's? _____ HBM 2016 2SS A8 NPP Pray . This suggests that the idler gear and ball bearing assembly has a tight interference fit to the stator shaft support housing. Which one you use is going to depend on whether or not the transmission is in or out of the vehicle. Specifications The 6L80 denotes that the transmission is a 6-Speed, Longitudinally mounted, and for 8000 lbs. The following drivability conditions will be present when this type of DTC is stored. More or less a TT V8 german car so if the new 8 or 10 speed GM transmission would work where the 6L80E came originally and the CTS V, SS Sedan, and ZL1 Brembo brakes work it could be a great platform. When other diagnostic trouble codes are present, there can be different, specific drivability concerns caused by the failure management program. Our transmission shop specializes in rear wheel drive Ford & GM high performance transmissions. It was created to help GM meet ever more demanding CAFE regulations on their vehicles. Genuine ICT Billet - Bolts Made in USA!!!! Lets talk about some of the concerns and fixes we have been seeing. In fact the input torque rating is 440 lb. Subscribe Now or gross weight of 14,000 lbs. Longitudinal transmissions [ edit] Aisin AR5/MA5 5-speed longitudinal manual made by Aisin. I think the extra gears and the taller overdrive would be nice but I wonder if it's worth all the effort. To handle the increased output torque capacity, the 6L90 departed from the long-standing GM 32 spline specification output shaft of the 6L80 and went to larger diameter 29 spline for most truck applications. I would like to keep the turbo small so it would spool extremely quickly and the compression high to be responsive. Beginning in 2010, all 2500 and 3500 Express / Savana with a 4.8L or 6.0L engine used the 6L90 transmission. As the 10 speeds continue to make their way into our shops, keep in mind the more you know about them, the better off youll be. Drive the vehicle until the engine and transmission reach normal operating temperature. I work on other peoples vehicles for a living. When cutting the JMBX open, converter rebuilders report that a high percentage of units show extreme damage due to the clutch piston and front cover crashing into each other (Figure 1). A second electric 10L80 pump maintains fluid pressure when the stop/start function activates. Finally I am looking for a Chevrolet Caprice PPV to build into a fun road trip sedan for the family with either a LS3 or L92 engine block, stock LSA crank, rods, pistons, ARP hardware through out with CNC LS3/L92 heads and a pair of turbos with a goal of 750-950 horsepower at the wheels. I am making a great deal of changes to the truck from a Procharged 5.3 to a head, cam, Fast LSXRT intake LS2 on nitrous before we build a 3.9 bore and stroke twin turbo 372ci setup.