I haven't heard MSB or theDenafrips DAC. So take it for what it is. https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/how-to-support-audio-science-review.8150/, Check the true bit-depth of your files and audio engine, Guide to Subwoofer Calibration and Bass Preferences, Know your limits (Sound Exposure Safety Chart), Topping DX7 Pro+ vs Chord DAVE measurements (Cosmos ADC) - DAVE is better in some areas (surprise! So true jr, the discrete R2R Multibit dacs like the Terminator the Holo, MSB, Total ect ect have a life and a boogie factor to the music that DS dacs lack, and yes they do show up bad recordings. Now, this is an important and quite a cool lesson in what is going on with the two PSUs. Is this what passes for high end? Taiko Audio Extreme > Sablon Audio Reserva Elite USB2022/Sablon Audio Reserva Ethernet2020> Aqua Formula XHDV2 > Sablon Audio King Sablon Interconnects > LDR pre > PuLSar45 DC SE amp > Sablon Audio Reserva speaker cables (pigtailed) > Avantgarde Duo Omega( Duelund xover). Euphony Summus, EtherRegen, MSB Discrete. Elegant design. 2001-2023 Head-Fi.org. I haven't yet come across one DAC that is best and will completely dominate other great DACs across all audio evaluation parameters. Were constantly improving digital input modules to stay at the forefront of the high-end audio industry, ensuring youre always equipped with the most current digital file formats and interfaces. First I want to say that I fully agree that the hobby is And this level of detail the MSB Discrete brings to the listening experience was carried through everything I listened toand I listened to this DAC a lot, with it being the only thing I used to for a solid two weeks. Always use!! Funny how Rob Watts drones on and on about noise modulation, and then we see his product performing like this.. now one might not exactly call this noise modulation, but it definitely something to avoid, especially given the price tag. I'm not an absolutist, and frankly, I could be happy with any of the DACs I mentioned. The Discrete is a genuine high fidelity DAC and a fabulously built one to boot, add in the modular input flexibility and you have a pretty stunning product with excellent future proofing. I think people buy what they like. Well this is going to set the cat amongst the pigeons for sure. It's too damn expensive, full stop. https://www.audiogon.com/listings/lis9eh61-lampizator-pacific-da-converters, https://positive-feedback.com/audio-discourse/lampizator-pacific-dac/, https://forum.audiogon.com/discussions/subjective-grading-of-dac-that-i-had-heard-during-last-one-year-period. "To be 100% honest we have A/B tested most of the dacs mentioned But digital, potentially, can change things. Looks like your budget goes up to ~$20k? It features the very best conversion technology available, using proprietary techniques never seen before, making DAVE the most advanced DAC/preamp amplifier in the world. The best upgrade for Dave easy. Over the air updates will ensure that your renderer always has the latest capabilities and ultimate convenience. A modular I/O card keeps even the discrete DAC flexible, repairable, and upgradeable. MSB DACs also use a processing chip to handle oversampling and digital filtering (not sure if this chip is an FPGA or other type processing chip, but it is a high speed digital processing chip). Sonically it is very much as its name suggests and converts files faithfully and without loss or (importantly) embellishment. Up to 4X DSD I hate to repeat myself, but there are no absolutes in audio, only preferences. It may not display this or other websites correctly. But dont take our word for it. A Chord DAC converts to analog via Chord's "Pulse Array DAC" which is a discrete circuit, similar to the discrete circuit used in the MSB DACs (but not the same). Theyre not limited by audio formats, sample rates, or even speed. This gives us lots of headroom for future sample rates and audio formats.. Click to expand. Out of all of the DACs I've I listen mostly to classical music, particularly with symphonic work, I prefer DAVE to MSB. I like Aqua Formula xHD and Totaldac Six. Digital Audio Forum: DAC, Transports, Digital Processing Forum, 4x20A circuits | Audioquest Niagara 3000 | Paul Hynes SR4T + HDPlex HD500 PSUs -> Music PC w/JCAT XE nic, HQPlayer, Roon, Tidal / Qobuz | HDPlex HD100 PSU -> OCX clock + EtherRegen | Aqua Acoustic Quality LinQ streamer | Aqua Acoustic Quality Formula xHD Rev. Ill not get into the whole detail of this here but the MSB website does have an excellent (and interesting) explanation of jitter and why having a very low jitter clock is favourable to having a very accurate clock theres a link at the bottom of this review. I own the MSB Select II with the dual powerbases and 33 Femto Clock. Thats why were thrilled to offer up to 100% trade-in value for existing MSB products when upgrading to a higher performing series. Once complete there are measurements and functional tests before the final products are inspected, cleaned, and packed up ready to be shipped, but not before a white glove inspection by either Jonathan or Daniel. There is the option to add a streaming module to the Discrete and if I was in the market for a digital streaming solution, then this is where I would be going. Up to 8X DSD and this is borne out in the sound that this DAC brings to the party. Regular readers will appreciate all that is taken from the MSB website and I make no apologies for not really understanding the electronics. September 6, 2016 in DAC - Digital to Analog Conversion. However, Id argue that there is sort of two trains of thought on this subject; one where theres absolute fidelity to the source material at all costs, and another that sounds great though to the listener but perhaps not absolutely true to the original source and I dont think its unfair to say that both these positions have their place in the world of playing tunes at home. Edited November 11, 2020 by seadog. Its headphone amplifier is good but no match for higher powered units. Check out the awards + accolades. How hot does the Chord DAC get? I've had some excellent preamps in my system (Dartzeel, Absolare, Robert Koda, Kondo). An FPGA does not have analog output, in the Chord DACs, VLC | M-Audio FastTrack Pro | Mac Opt | Panasonic SA-HE100 | Logitech Z623, : SET Tube Amp | Low-Noise Linear Regulated Power Supply | USB, Power, Speaker Cables | Speaker Stands | Acoustic Panels, http://igg.me/at/geekpulseaudio/x/5216671. How does it compare? That statement makes sense in an analog paradigm. What is available on models higher up the MSB food chain is the ability to add an analogue module so that you can use the unit as a true preamplifier and DAC. When you get the chance to hear Chord DAVE, try playing files bit perfect instead of upsampling them to DSD256 with HQPlayer. I've tried it in my system and I don't like it. Congratulations on the upgrade and enjoy it in good health. Yes, definitely, as it is those extra tiny little bits of detail that adds the cherry on top of an already rather splendid slice of musical cake brought out on tracks like the audio show mainstay Keith Dont Go from Acoustic Live by Nils Lofgren. In my assessment the Makua offered a more open and spacious sound. And I've learned to be careful and not generalize how a component will sound based on show conditions or other systems. Perhaps thats a bit of an odd example for me to use as its a bit World Music but you are also made aware of the rightness of timing on percussive techno tracks. It is a pretty DAC but usability is left behind. The Thank me laterLoL. Personally we have A/B 76 different digital front ends.. Sonically, it is akin to the old straight wire with gain only in the digital realm. This unit came with two power supplies and Ill be playing with the DAC with one and with two to compare and contrast. As I said, its an odd one to describe but you do hear it as it brings a sense of rightness to rhythm tracks. What effect does reconstruction filter have? Ill go through the modules included in the Discrete DAC and explain a little about each. The headamp is powerful but not involving. I did have the BADA Ref in my system for a short audition, and the Trinity And CH Precision C1 for a longer stay during a previous iteration of my system. If so I'd recommend the Aqua Formula xHD and the TotalDAC d1-Seven. Regardless if the buyer has never auditioned the unit, and found it corresponding to, Simaudio Moon Neo 260 DT CD Transport / Empirical Audio reclocking system: Synchro-Mesh Reclocker driven by Dynamo Linear Power Supply, 2 x Reference BNC digital cable / Schiit Yggdrasil Less is More (LIM) DAC / Octave HP 700 preamp / Octave RE 320 stereo amp with Super Black Box / Reference 3A Reflector monitors, on Sound Anchors Signature stands / dual JL Audio Fathom 112 v2 subwoofers / Cables: ZenWave Audio D4 interconnects, ZenWave SMSG speaker cables / Diverse Herbie's Audio Lab footers / Acoustic treatment: Tri-panels, window plugs, ceiling diffusers (all ASC), diverse carpets chosen for acoustic properties (wool, polypropylene basketweave), Sure absolutely agree that paying that much money without auditioning (preferably in my house, with my own equipment, in my room) does not make much sense. Didn't like it at all. I still did not found better audio source. Perhaps you should consider the Accuphase DC-37 currently for sale in the classifieds? I'm looking for suggestions on DACs I should listen to as possible replacement of my Chord Dave. The Dave as a DAC actually sounds decent. The dCS Bartok was also interesting but, based on my research, I kept coming back to Bricasti. Stuart Smith finds out. Can't beat the form factor of it though, great for off a desk top. You might want to consideradding oneof Chord's Upscalers, either HugoM scaler, or the Blu Mk. Then we have the Integrated Clock module and Im starting to get the whole modular approach to the design of the MSB DAC. Conversely, you could spend a lot more and not gain a great deal in real terms. This is a dealers email comment to me about comparisons he did. have had the opportunity to A/B many more pieces of equipment than any consumer If you take a look at their website you will see that the machining shop is a fully equipped facility designed to meet the needs of a company producing high-quality cases in which the electronics will be fitted no off the shelf or cheap bent metal cases here! Anyway, I switched out the valve power amplifier and put in its place the Krell KST100 (all fully fettled and brought up to a better than new spec by Krell in the States) with my intention being to see what effect was the DAC and what was down to the amp basically isolating the effect to a component. Less experience with Dave on DSD, plus Rob claims to no longer decimate. Unless they have the exact same components as the end user, it's impossible to tell that customer how component X will sound in their system. For sure with Hugo and Qutenot even debatable. I did try with just the one power supply and the Discrete remained a very strong performer with the differences being a very slight loss in the sense of separation and definition when listening intently. @shkong78 how good is the dave + mscaler vs msb? That is not to say that a preamp doesn't produce value with respect to other sound quality characteristics that may affect the personal appeal of the musical reproduction (e.g., soundstage), or that the extra transparency won't reveal system issues, but there is no question that transparency is higher when going straight to the amps. personal preference. The in-house discrete design is then constructed into its own shielded CNC pocket for optimal isolation. If you go reference you will never look back. It was a speaker setup (as in my signature.) This is THE place where audiophiles and audio companies discuss vintage, contemporary and new audio products, music servers, music streamers, computer audio, digital-to-analog converters, turntables, phono stages, cartridges, reel-to-reel tape machines, speakers, headphones and tube and solid-state amplification. The other thing I've learned about the Chord Dave is it can sound very different depending on the interconnect and/or power cord used. In that price range, you would be mad not to add the MSB Premier DAC to your list as well. Like others said, I'd try first an MScaler with DAVE. I recently bought a DAC with a digital volume control precisely to bypass the preamp, but when I compared the two approaches there was very little between them. Much appreciated. It may not display this or other websites correctly. The Hugo TT2 is intended to bridge the gap between the range topping DAVE and budget Qutest rack mounted offerings. The main reason we took on Rockna was because their @ricred1, youre right to point that out. You are using an out of date browser. Chord Dave Replacement. Hifi Pig is part of the Big Pig Media LLP group of companies. Fair enough if you know some of the posters here and their listening preferences. For some folk, a highly resolving and accurate system may well be described as being over-analytical, and on the other side of the audio fence, some will suggest that some systems sound nice but flawed. How does the PS Audio DirectStream DAC compare to the Chord DAC? But in the specific case of the BADA and PM2, if you wish for me to be more precise, then taking into account that I only had the BADA ref for a very short time, the bottom line was that I didn't feel at the time that the difference between the PM2 in my system was significant enough to make it worth the energy to change components or the potential financial loss involved in a trade. I'm looking for suggestions between $10K - $12K. Is it too hot to touch? You could try some of the newer dacs that has gotten good reviews. The sonic signature is detailed and yet easy to listen to, with the Discrete bringing a sense of the recordings scale (big or small) to the listening experience. heard, I could easily live with the Aeris, Dave, or Wavedream. sounds like a more transparent Chord Dave to my ears. However, the extra PSU does add to the cost considerably! digital front ends. The Pro USB was developed to offer a multi part USB solution that features complete electrical isolation and all the performance of MSBs proprietary Pro ISL input. To be 100% honest we have A/B tested most of the dacs mentioned We await Phase 2 where all DACs are assessed using upsampled data via your Lumin U1 to establish ranking and the preferred format through each. Click here to download your copy, At 11000 plus taxes as tested the Lampizator Big 7 is certainly no budget DAC, but does it deliver on sonic ability? as far as direct comparison with other dacs the closest Ive done is listening to the Select II at shows and then listening to other top dacs in other systems at shows. There are a lot of people that absolutely love the M-scaler. I'm also a very patient person and can wait for the right bit of kit at the right price to come up secondhand. It's pretty funny how everyone gives their personal pet recommendation with the utmost confidence that the buyer will like it. Never use!! Along with an integrated clock, changing this card allows switching between single-ended and balanced outputs. I agree with your statement. All in all the Discrete DAC is beautiful looking, minimal, easy to set up (its all but plug and play if you turn both the PSUs on) and it feels like a proper bit of audio engineering. But dont take our word for it. What else should one expect? I can only comment on the Emm labs, if u can get a DA2 I think you will be happy "An audiophile is only done when they go to the great brick and mortar store in the sky" Ron Resnick MSB Discrete Dac with one additional basic power supply. Elegant yet commanding, our finishes are available in a matte silver or matte black anodize. The Chord DAVE was also on my list, but I decided to pass (my Chord retailer was very 'pushy' and not helpful). And differences at that level can be good. So thats it and I think the only thing I think Ive left out of the build part of this DAC is the 3 buttons and the knob on the front panel which are used for manually changing the volume and menu diving, though all this can be done from the remote. There is no dark magic involved. We can operate our current DAC modules at up to 6 MHz for PCM and up to 50 MHz for DSD. Ok, I looked a prat but it proves that the separate PSUs are actually doing something rather than being there for show, though they do look rather cool in themselves. Blimey my RME ADI 2 DAC looks to have better performance at a fraction of the cost, /===============================================================/, DACs, Streamers, Servers, Players, Audio Interface, Combination Audio DAC and Headphone Amplifiers. The DAVE DAC does not perform anywhere near where it should. Our products include our in-house designed viton feet, but any audiophile M6X1 foot can be installed to personalize your system. Fully agree that it could come down to personal preference @RoriHope you have arranged auditions. Others might disagree but these are my findings. But DAVE also seems to me to highlight the original recording so if the recording is flat, the playback sounds flat (still with great accurate timbre) but if the recording really showcase the soundstage and the 3-dimensionality of the instruments and vocals, DAVE really portrays that well. Dave gets a "thumbs up" overall from me though. I think is a good general rule of thumb, but there are some very transparent passive pre-amps out there. Additionally, MSBs robust in-house design enables the finest quality playback of PCM and native DSD, while our low impedance circuitry drives your amplification directly without adding coloration or buffering noise. Thanks guys! The end result is a digital experience defying expectations. Sounds shrill on my workstation and work laptop. CH Precision mono dac with clock and 3 power supplies (7 boxes)----its more spendy---$150k, Merging Technologies NADAC w/power supply and clock---much better now with the clock and power supply upgrades than my previous experience.----around $60k. See what the reviews are saying. By It is just as important as the DAC itself. Then just stay with the basic Premier unit, and the power supply that comes with it. The MSB Renderer was developed using an in-house hardware design running an ultra low noise A5 processor for optimal audio playback performance. My wife said it JavaScript is disabled. You must log in or register to reply here. The demo model came in brushed aluminium but you can also get black. Copyright Hifi Pig and Hifi Pig Magazine, Big Pig Media LLP. I wired it all up and the unit lit up but I could get no sound out of it whatsoever. However, there are also products that manage to straddle both sides of the electric fence (whilst being careful not to electrocute their nether regions) and give us a tremendously enjoyable reproduction of a recording whilst remaining true to the source material. I've yet to see a system with direct connections eliminating the preamp which wasn't improved by a adding a good preamp back into the mix! I wanted to know for anyone who has heard it have you also heard a DAC that approached it in sonic performance? With two prime DACs, we yield an unprecedented level of detail, reproducing the musicality, soundstage, and texture of an original performance, bringing the artist to you. Sources: Hiby R6, Fiio x3II, Fiio x5II DACs: Dave, Yggdrasil, Hugo, Hugo TT, U12. personal preference." No matter what ice cream you prefer, I prefer something else. The DAC has two modes; multi-bit PCM and single-bit discrete DSD mode. dac at a reasonable price. dacs and server competed against much more expensive dacs and servers sound wise Rori is definitely welcome. I had the DAVE for 3years, it is an amazing DAC. comparing top dacs directly is a bit challenging, even if you have them both together. Chord Dave DAC "Sealed Box Brand New" Never Opened !! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites. It's not just a matter of being polite, it's also about acknowledging that what we hear and what we prefer is uncertain and changes; that the comparisons were made at different points in time wherein my system had varying levels of resolution/ noise; the fact that making a change requires greater energy and usually more money than staying with what you have; and that sometimes the differences between components are not significant or actionable. Does anyone have formula for that? The modular nature of the Discrete and other MSB DACs is very clever and I assume this goes a good way towards giving it such a neutral and detailed sound, where no one part is interfering with what the other is doing. Look, says I theres obviously a fault with this unit as its lighting up, I can see it on the network and I can send tunes to it via the Stack streamer and Roon! We went through everything and I was getting ready to pack it up and send it back when I reached around the back of one of the PSUs and switched it on MUSIC!!! In terms of sound quality, it's the best digital front end I . If I got a great $20K DAC for less, I would not object. It's embarrassing. Nothing was amiss. Thats not allthe CNC unibody aluminum chassis provides the discrete power supply with optimal thermal performance and an elegant design aesthetic. But the majority of the time all 6 of There is no such thing as a "FPGA DAC"! Thanks for the suggestion ecwl. Can I ask how you procured all those DACs? Couldn't agree more. The evolution of the original irreverent and irrelevant and non-authoritative site for headphone measurements, i.e. Anyway, the MSB Discrete is a machine that I consider to be highly resolving and a true HiFi product with regard to the definition I quoted above. The MSB simply sounded more real to my ears and offered a more convincing soundstage and tonality and all the tiny informations in the music where integrated in the musical flow whereas the DAVE simply sounded flat and not realistic to my ears and even lacked those tiny informations. You are using an out of date browser. Dedicated Line DSD/DXD | Audirvana+ | iFi iDSD Nano | SET Tube Amp | Totem Mites, Surround: VLC | M-Audio FastTrack Pro | Mac Opt | Panasonic SA-HE100 | Logitech Z623, DIY: SET Tube Amp | Low-Noise Linear Regulated Power Supply | USB, Power, Speaker Cables | Speaker Stands | Acoustic Panels, You need to be a member in order to leave a comment. In comparison to spdif which feels more 3D but relatively smaller sound stage, with better separation, vocals are more focused/accurate, everything sounds more evenly balanced. Cheers @Stereophilus California crafted in-house from an aluminum billet, the enclosure feels solid yet refined. And thinking more about it, the differences at the time could have been small because the noise level in my system at the time of the comparison were relatively higher than they are now. other dacs I have enjoyedin no particular order; I would not call this second tier; but I prefer what hear from my Select II to what Ive heard from these. DAVE stands for 'Digital to Analogue Veritas in Extremis', a moniker that best reflects the product's . It may not display this or other websites correctly. I hear the new Ayre QX-5 Twenty gives the DAVE a run for its money at $8950 but that is just hearsay. I auditioned a DAVE (not deconstructed) and TT2 and found all Chord products lacked the musicality of MSB. Digital: Jay's Audio CDT2 MK2 CD transport, Modified MHDT Labs Balanced Pagoda DAC. The video cannot be shown. there are others I know about but Ive not heard them recently. Oppo Modwright BDP-205 full mod. and as I said earlier there is no "best" when it comes to dacs or subjective to a point and that is why we do blind testing and A/B testing with SO/ROON/HQPe: DSD 256-Sonore opticalModuleDeluxe-Signature Rendu optical--Bricasti M3 DAC--DIY Purifi Amplifier-Focus Audio FS888 speakers-JL E 112sub-Nordost Tyr USB, DIY EventHorizon AC cables, Iconoclast XLR & speaker cables, Synergistic Purple Fuses, Spacetime system clarifiers. Im outputting directly to the LAB12 (and later a Krell KST100) power amp and so a digital volume algorithm is used where the digital volume control is left at a relatively high output so as not to encounter loss at lower volume levels. Of the ones you mentioned I'd be most tempted by the Emm Labs DAC 2x though if you can get a used higher-end Esoteric, you should jump on it. MQA decoding I just heard DAVE directly connected to MacBook Pro via USB without any expensive cables, headphone amplifier, power conditioner. You are using an out of date browser. Dealer's should be required to state they're a dealer every time they post or have a disclaimer in their username. Different songs will sound better with different sources - Different horses for different courses. Once you start playing a tune the DAC works out the sample rate and chooses the correct playback clock. Each clock is made up of two independent clocks but only one is used at any given time so as not to add unwanted noise to the circuit. The Discrete DAC uses two of these modules per unit. Lots of time it I have the Berkeley Alpha Reference DAC, waiting for an upgrade. You'll be shocked by how much you lose by going through a separate preamp.